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Sunday, June 13, 2010

Bamboo Shrimp

By parker002 from the Everything Aquatic Forum Board

I posted my observations about temperature, it's relationship, and how I sensed it was affecting my shrimp.

Several people commented that they appreciated it since there aren't a lot of people here that are keeping them. So I thought I would start a thread to share some of the other things I'm learning now that my bamboo shrimp experience is in full swing. Maybe I can even convince a few of you to get one!

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a scientist or a professional aquarist. This stuff is based on my own observations and some stuff I've read on the internet that is supported by those observations. I AM NOT AN EXPERT.

First of all, if you're not sure what I'm talking about, I'm talking about atyopsis - a "filter feeding" shrimp. At your LFS, you'll see them referred to as bamboo, wood, or flower shrimp. They might also be referred to as Singapore shrimp. They're different from a lot of other shrimp in that they don't have claws, they have 4 feathery front "arms". Rather than killing (like crayfish) or picking (like algae-eaters) with claws, they use their feathers to filter micro-organisms from the water.

Bamboo Shrimp
Here's a picture of mine. The girls call him Pierre. The picture isn't great, but it does show his filters in action.

The only real advice I can give if you are thinking about getting a bamboo shrimp is to remember that he's not a fish. Of course, that fact is probably why you wanted a shrimp in the first place but the flip-side is that you have to treat him differently, too.



Here are some things I've had to deal with:

    • Fish get sick once in a while, and one of the most common issues is probably Ich. In general, medications that treat Ich and other similar parasites contain things that will KILL your shrimp. Copper and other heavy metals are toxic as are many other substances. If you already use a hospital tank for treating fish disease, you're in good shape. But if your used to just dosing your tank, it gets more complicated.

    Water quality is always critical but it seems to be even more so with shrimp. They're extremely sensitive to ammonia. And as I observed previously, low dissolved oxygen is much more apparent with shrimp than with fish.

    • Be careful when doing water changes and cleaning your tank. I've noticed my shrimp is also much more sensitive to stress than my fish. Absolutely DO NOT remove all your ornaments while cleaning your tank. These guys want places to hang out. A bare tank is a sure way to stress them to death.

    • A happy bamboo shrimp will eat almost all of the time. But this doesn't mean you'll see them feeding like you would other shrimp. If a bamboo shrimp is getting enough to eat in my experience, they won't move for long periods of time (even DAYS). They'll sit with their filters deployed and eat continuously by putting the filter in their mouth and pulling debris off of it. They depend on their food coming to them (via water currents) much more than fish. If your shrimp is picking the substrate, even though it seem like normal behavior for a shrimp, it's actually not good - he's probably not getting enough to eat. Make sure you have a spot where they can set themselves in the current and they should do well.

    • On the subject of starvation, you might be tempted to give more fish food, in an effort to feed your shrimp. If you have livebearers like me, all you'll end up with are super fat fish and a shrimp that still isn't getting enough to eat. Also, over-feeding can lead to poor water quality which can create a whole host of problems. Also see my comments in the next bullet regarding scavenging.

    • I have a 55G tank with several fish. Bamboo shrimp are omnivorous. If you have a setup like that, you shouldn't need to feed your shrimp separately very often. They should get enough to eat from decaying fish waste and other small organisms in your water. I should be more specific about scavenging. These shrimp are NOT scavengers in the sense that they'll pick through the substrate looking for leftover fish food. In fact, if they're doing that, they're probably STARVING. In the strictest sense of the word, scavenger means an animal that feeds on dead or decaying matter and a bamboo shrimp certainly does that. They just do so PASSIVELY (filtering the water column) whereas I think a lot of people hear scavenger and think of the raccoon in their garbage or a vulture picking at a deer on the highway.

    • It's still fun (if not necessary) to give treats once in a while. To avoid issues with the fish, I use a medicine dropper and introduce "treats" to my shrimp directly rather than putting it in the water where the fish can get it first.

    • I also try to give my shrimp supplements that are less enticing to the fish in general. I've found if I crush bloodworms into a fine powder, the fish ignore them but he loves it. I also feed small amounts of frozen plankton (copepods) by mixing a small chunk with tank water and squirting it near him. The fish like these too, though, so I have to be careful.

    • I did stumble onto another off-the-wall treat that he REALLY enjoys. When I bought my tank, the LFS guy gave me some powder called BioZyme to start my tank. It didn't work, I'm guessing because powdered bacteria are pretty dead. I ended up using liquid Turbo Start (my tank cycled within 48 hours of adding it) and I've had this BioZyme sealed in a tube ever since. Out of curiosity, I mixed a TINY bit of it (the size of a BB maybe) with water and squirted it at him. I've never seen him eat like that, he went crazy! That being said, I have no idea if feeding my shrimp TANK STARTER BACTERIA is a good idea or not. I wasn't going to use it for anything else, so I thought I would try it.

    • One of the things Carl always preaches here on the boards is that proper mineralization is important if you want healthy fish. For shrimp and other invertebrates with ecto-skeletons, it's absolutely essential that you have good mineral content, especially calcium. Bamboo shrimp molt and need calcium to build a new shell. Mine has already molted twice in about 8 weeks and I've read similar stories elsewhere on the internet. All of our water around here comes out of limestone aquifers, so for me it's not an issue. If you have soft water, make sure you are adding minerals, especially calcium.

    • Speaking of molting, make sure your shrimp has a place to hide. I have never observed my fish attacking him, but while molting they're super-soft and vulnerable and could be damaged beyond repair.

    • While I've never seen my fish bother the shrimp, I HAVE seen the shrimp attack fish. It's actually harmless and quite funny. His feathers are completely harmless - again, they're not claws in any way. He's fairly aggressive (he jumps at me when I come to the glass LOL) but it's all for show.

    • Finally, I have observed a quite peculiar and fascinating behavior. When he's using all 4 filters to feed, he uses them in an exact order. If the first filter to go into his mouth is the bottom-right one, the top-right is next. I've sat for as long as 15 minutes at a time and watched him feed in this strict linear pattern. It's hilarious. My daughter and I have observed him for literally hours over the past month and he might break his sequence once or twice every 50 iterations. Just another little thing that makes this things so much fun!

    • For purchasing, I don't use the same process I use with fish. Shrimp are SO fragile and because of that, I don't really feel they're subject to the same kind of hidden problems you get with fish. Again, this is my own personal opinion and not in any based in fact, but for me, if a store has a half dozen shrimp and they're active and using their filters, that's good enough. If there were something wrong with them, they'd be DEAD. The reason I think this is important is because they are so fragile. If you're like me, your first shrimp is probably going to die just due to unfamiliarity. At the 2 LFS in my area, they sell for $16 and $18. Wal-Mart sells them for $7 and I got mine at Petco for $6. I bought my first one at the LFS for $18 and he died within a handful of days. This one is thriving and I save more than $10.

    • Here's some additional info I forgot regarding coloration. I've read all kinds of different thoughts about the color of these things. I've read they turn bright red when happy. I've also read that they turn bright red when stressed or when death is imminent. I've made some observations regarding this because I've been paying special attention to his color (yes, I'm curious!). My shrimp was dark brown at the store but he's now red. It's possible that he was brown due to "unhappiness" but that's an awful lot of emotion to ascribe to an animal that technically doesn't have a brain (They have a system of ganglia. If our human brain were a powerful home computer, think of a shrimp as having a handheld calculator.) I thought maybe coloration was related to the environment. The tanks at the LFS where I bought mine had black walls and dark substrate in a very dark room. I have sandstone substrate and a well-lit room. I thought it might be some sort of "camouflage" reaction. However, while I'm treating my fish for disease I currently have him in the girls' bedroom in a small betta tank with black substrate and poor lighting. He's still red. There is one thing I'm convinced of - a HEALTHY shrimp will be deeply colored, whether brown, red, or whatever. If your shrimp is turning white or looking pale, my opinion is that he's either stressed, dying, or both. I've read several places that a dying shrimp turns bright red and my own observation doesn't support that. My current shrimp is red and has been since the day I got him. Now, I did own a bamboo shrimp previously (when I first got my 55G tank) and without much knowledge or him or aquaria in general, I got to watch it die. I can say with a fair amount of confidence that a DYING shrimp will turn pale or white, not red. I did observe my first shrimp turn bright red after it was but not the same red that my current, living shrimp displays. My current shrimp is translucent (yes, you can see through him to a certain degree) and tinted a deep blood red. My dead shrimp, shortly after dying, turned an opaque, bright red, similar to the color of Alaskan king crab after it's boiled in it's shell at Red Lobster. I'm assuming that's some kind of calcification process.


Hopefully, this spurs a few of you to try this out. My shrimp is easily the most interesting item in my tank!

For the full Thread, Please follow this link:
Bamboo shrimp anecdotes...

Thursday, May 6, 2010

Water clouds with Flourish Iron

From the Complete Thread: Water clouds with Flourish Iron

Polaris96
Relatively new to all of this. First let me thank everyone on this site and americanaquariumproducts.com for all of your advice. I'm grateful that there's plenty of real science going on here, in addition to the anecdotal stuff (which is just as important, but much easier to find).

I've got a 10gal planted freshwater tank with community fish (tetras, barbs, 1 gourami, and 2 corys) and some cherry shrimp. Currently using a gravel filter with sponges on the outlets. I add flourish excel every other day and a weekly dose of flourish and flourish iron.

The iron makes my water cloudy for about two days (sometimes three). Is this normal? should I reduce the dose? maybe spread it over several dosings? I doubt the dose is too high because I never show ANY iron content when I test the water (defaulting to the recommended 1mL/10gal)

The tank looks wonderful when the water's clear Anyone had this issue?


Carl
What are your other parameters?

I have not had this happen, but this seems to describe a precipitation out of solution problem (although not a big problem IMO).
The question is why this is happening; my thoughts are your Iron is causing the temporary precipitation of carbonates and calcium/magnesium, especially if your GH or KH is quite high

See also this SeaChem fact sheet:
Flourish Iron


Polaris96
ahhhhhh. yep. that's it.

I've got GH++ right now due to an idiot misread of the dosage on the Seachem Equilibrium bottle (it's embarrassing for an Engineer to admit he f'ed up the chemistry ... ) I dosed a 10gal tank with two tablespoons of Equilibrium. it was a serious error abd whacked my Nitrites in a day. I feel really bad about that.

tank, this morning was:
NH[34] 0.25ppm
NO3 0
NO4 10ppm
pH 7
KH 71.6
GH off the scale. My table ends at 214.8ppm for 12 drop titration. I need about 40 drops to kick on the test (API). (one of these days I'll graph the data and extrapolate the curve if the relationship is clear, but, for now, I'm just logging GH as 214.8++)

I've added a water softener pillow, which has caused the GH number to stop climbing, at least. I'm thinking it's gonna be a long haul of gradual dissolution until water changes carry out the overage. At least my local water is good for this (New York, Long Island) I've got high pH and Carbonate but zero magnesium or trace salts (no bedrock, here).

I don't see any way of dealing with this, save to let it run its course. At least nothing seems to be adversely affected (so far).

by the way, any idea why I get no measurable levels of Fe even directly after adding SeaChem Flourish Iron? I have tested with both RedSea and Hagen kits after assuming, incorrectly, that the reagent may have been off.


Carl
Did you mean PO4 rather than NO4 (I cannot think of any compound that NO4 stand for)?

I do not have an answer for testing of your Iron, as I have only added it via dosing, often via root tabs since this is a trace element...

I would not be too concerned about your GH as 200-300 is not even close to a dangerous level, as well GH is also necessary to prevent ph spikes during peak hours of photosynthesis and this cloudy water issue is only a temporary nuisance.
You could also try mixing the iron supplement in a gallon of your tank water than setting it aside for a couple of days to settle prior to adding to your aquarium.

See these articles for further information:
Aquarium Chemistry; pH, GH, KH, more

Planted Freshwater Aquarium Care

Polaris96
NO4 would be a pernitrate, and I'm not even sure if nitrogen will form one in the regular environment. Its goobledygook - I messed up. sorry for the confusion.

I should have written NO2 instead of NO3 and NO3 instead of NO4.

I have already read the articles you included, but thanks anyway for the links. It's obvious you put a good deal of analytical rigor into them and I've referred a bunch of my peers who have aquaria to them.

So refreshing not to hear another rant on, " Duuuuuuuuuuuuude my African Cichlids don't bother any other fish as long as I keep feeding them tetramin boiled for exactly 23 minutes in whale fat. They just SAY that crap about aggression to get you to buy another tank, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan."


Carl
OK, I forgot all about this.
My understanding of NO4 pernitrate cannot exist because O (Oxygen) is always -2 in a compound

How did you test for pernitrate?

I have to admit I have never thought of or had a question about pernitrate, so my knowledge of this is very basic.


Polaris96
I meant to say I screwed up the empirical formulae for Nitrates and Nitrites by adding an extra Oxygen radical to each. I didn't test for pernitrates; I just messed up the formula when I wrote the post.

The compound could, theoretically, exist, because Oxygen and Nitrogen are both anions ( "-" charged). It would require a cation group to balance the sum of the negative charges. That’s why nitrates and nitrites always exist as "something" nitrate (eg. Potassium Nitrate or Ammonium Nitrate). I know you know this already, I'm just throwing it in for the benefit of any interested hobbyists that might skim the post.

I don't think there are many naturally occurring cation groups that fit pernitrate charge criteria, but this is only a hunch. A Horticultural or Agricultural chemist would be our "go to" guy here for hard facts. I think you would already know about pernitrates if they were important.

By the way, has anybody experimented with Ozone to energize the Redox potential in aquaria? It has seen some usage in atmospheric recycling.


Carl
Ozone has been used in the past in the Aquarium Hobby to increase the Redox.
However the other side of the equation has often been overlooked in the hobby


Babygeige
I don't really have anything to add as to the science/chemistry aspect of this conversation, but I'm just curious what plants you have in your tank.

Generally from what I've read, most of the basic maintenance plants don't really require the addition of iron, they'll get enough of what they need from the trace amounts in water. Unless you're growing plants with red leaves and high light requirements, you may not even need to add this.

I haven't used any iron additives in my tanks yet. I've only just begun to consider it for my Narrow Leaf Ludwigia, only as an experiment to see if it would make a difference in its color.

.....it looks like you need the Iron in there, if only for the pogo and red ludwigia. I think I am going to try some for my ludwigia too. The leaves on mine have a slightly reddish tint to them, but I'm very curious to see how much the addition of iron would help.

I can't think of why iron doesn't show up on your testing though. I wonder if the bottle of additive is ok. Do they expire? Or perhaps you got a bad bottle...


Bikeguy
the iron tests DO expire....but that only makes it less sensitive....it should register something. the odds of 2 kits being off tho are astronomical. now i`m not a chemist....but could there be some other element in the New York water that is neutralizing the iron??? kinda like the ammo out that changes ammonia???

To continue reading this thread, please follow this link:
Water clouds with Flourish Iron